tv Q A CSPAN December 9, 2012 11:00pm-12:00am EST
part in a form on how education and innovation can benefit the us economy. the google vice president also participates. the center for american progress host the line -- live event i'm a tomorrow on c-span. >> this week, crystal wright, editor and publisher of the internet blog site, conservativeblackchick.com. >> crystal wright, why did you call your blog "conservative black chick." >> not a big story behind that. i felt it illustrated who i was.
it is literal and fun. i was at a reunion for my all-- alma mater. a good friend of mine said i should just do my own blog. >> when did you start? >> 2009. i started blogging in 2009. i was very frustrated by barack obama's election. he ran as a moderate democrat. to pull people in the red state of virginia turn blue, i said, this is interesting. in january, he began to make his appointments and i began to see the same faces of the clinton administration. i became increasingly frustrated. obamacare is what hit me over the edge.
i said, why is this president not focusing on job creation? people do not want universal health care right now. >> when did you become a conservative? >> i do not really know if it was a light bulb going off in my head. i know the way i was raised as a kid by my parents was always, you grow up in life, you take responsibility for your actions, and you do not depend on somebody to do something for you. we would sit around and have dinner as a family together. my parents did not talk was about politics but they talked a lot about values and keeping your promises to people. i became a conservative when i moved to washington in 1995. i started working in television news.
going out and sat in on hearings. i was walking up and down and seeing all these government buildings and thought, what do these people do all day? i felt the more i engaged in government, the more conservative by became. i felt government was not doing a whole lot. i think government should be there for the poor. i think it should be there as a framework for how we conduct business and a structure for society. when you read the constitution, that is what the founding fathers had in mind, i believe. i do not think government is there to prop us all up, because then there would not be a safety net left for the people in life who really need it. the disabled, people who fall on
hard times and need a little help along the way, but i feel as though government now has grown too much beyond what our founding fathers wanted it to be. by the people, for the people. it is a framework, in my opinion, for how we live our life and conduct business. >> go back to that table you used to sit around at home. where was it? who sat around the table? what did your mom or dad do? >> i grew up in virginia. when we all got home from school, my dad got home from work and mom was always cooking mostly a good meal. it was a time when we all sat down. i remember watching walter cronkite at the time during the hostage crisis. we would talk about current events, grades, what was going
on at school and in our lives. we sat around the table as a family. was a meaningful thing to me. left a strong imprint on my life even to this day as an adult. when i am with my family, we sit at home and talk about current events and what is going on in our lives. as a country, we have got away from the family time. i think that makes a difference in kids' lives. families that eat together tend to stay together. the kids do well. three of us. i had to younger brothers. >> what are their politics? >> conservative. living in a very liberal state of washington state. i do not know how they ended up out there. my father is a dentist.
probably for 40 years. my mom is a schoolteacher. she got out of the workforce and is in and out of it. >> they still live in richmond? >> they do. they have been married for almost 50 years. >> how often are you picked? what would you balance out? >> i do not know if i am often picked as a balance. i am picked to go on panels and to news programs because people consider me an anomaly. i do not know why because there are a lot of black conservatives.
i have become a punching bag when i go on some television programs. i am a punching bag for the liberal host or liberal guests. i do not like it. i know there are a lot of black republicans out there. people go back through history and do their homework and realize the republican party was the home to black americans up through the 1960's. it was the republican party that did a lot to get blacks elected. they fought for civil rights. it frustrates me. i do not like it. i get angry about it. >> here is a video clip. you participated in an annual conference back in september. [video clip]
>> when you look at the data, you look like to get access to the polls. how is that not on its face a rationalized set of laws? >> i want to backtrack and go through the data nobody has mentioned. i grew up knowing that my parents sat at lunch counters. my mom tells me these stories. they resonate with me because they made me the woman i am to sit here before you and say i do not think martin luther king fought for us to be in the year 2012 to be told that blacks cannot, cannot, cannot. >> are you fearless? >> yes. i speak out and write the things i write as a conservative black woman.
really, it goes back to what i was explaining earlier, the way i was raised. i get a little emotional because my parents are a big part of my life and who i am today. no matter what we, as kids, ever wanted to pursue in life, we were always told, you can do it. there is no barrier except yourself. they never let us quit. my mom said, you make a commitment and you will do it. my dad was the same way. when i hear these accusations that black people, voter i.d. laws, disproportionately affects minorities. somehow we have something
missing in our brain. to me, it is white americans who go through all the processes to follow the laws. what are you telling black people? somehow, they are not good enough? the rhetoric from the democrats and the left is that there has to be a specialness when we deal with minorities because they are too feeble-minded. we need to make concessions to them because they cannot follow the rules like everybody else. when you treat people like victims, i do not think they want to aspire. i really resent it. it is bad to teach young people
that kind of rhetoric. it is nothing to write home about or sing praises about when you have one in six americans on food stamps right now. that is something we should all not be so happy about. >> you also alluded in your comments about what your parents lived through back in their early years. can you give us some more background? and your father being a dentist? >> my father was one of the very first folks, post civil-rights, one of the first blacks to go through dental school. he would help other classmates of his study and produce the same work as his white counterparts. he would get graded down and they would get a's. my mom talks about sitting at lunch counters with my father during.
she could see where the line was marked off for the blacks and whites. she could see the white kids and their families enjoying the umbrellas and being able to run things for the beach. she did not have access to those things. my mother tells me when she went to ballet class when she was 13, she said, before rosa parks did that, i had my own bus. she said, she was going to ballet class and she got on the bus, got in the back, and a white man told she needed to move.
she said, i am already on the back of the bus. where do you want me to go? she sat there. i get a lot of my fearlessness from my mother. my dad is a little more shy. i get my fortitude from him and other strength. the fearlessness probably comes a lot for my mother. i hear these stories, my mother, myself, people say. i cannot help why i am the way i am and why i speak out. we should all want to get more engaged in the political process. >> how did all that affect your parents and how much do they talk about those days today. >> they talk about a lot. especially now because we have the first black president of the united states that was elected. that was very historic. my mother had tears in her eyes when barack obama became president in 2008. >> did she vote for him? >> yes, she did.
>> how about dad? >> i am not sure. he said he did. >> did they vote for him again? >> my father did not. my mom and i have not followed up. >> did you vote for him in 2008? >> yes. >> again? >> i did not. it was historic for me knowing how my grandmother, my uncles, my mom, my dad, it was historic to be able to go into a voting booth and see a black man on the ticket that you had the option of voting for for president. moving, meaningful, it was great.
i am glad we as a country got past that barrier. i am troubled on the other side of that that the president, in my opinion, is not being judged and held to the same standards as his predecessors because of his race. we have a coddling of his presidency by the mainstream media because he is the first black president and they are fearful of offending. it really troubles me. the people chose again and they voted to give him another four years. i do not think that is the right choice. we talk a lot about politics more now as a family because of the president and his policies and the fact he is black.
there is a lot going on there for black americans. i am not sure the black americans who voted for him really looked at his record and what he has or has not done for them as a people or race. it is complicated. i do not think, for me, the second time around, it is not that complicated. i wanted to believe he was not going to govern the way he governed in the first term. it was a complicated vote. mccain and palin were not as strong a ticket as i wanted them to be. my parents do not go around and say, look how much we had to overcome to get where we are. my parents carry around -- when
we are going through bad times as children and we need peptalks, that is when my parents say if we had to go through the crap we had to go through, you can suffer. you keep pressing forward. it is not to say that racism does not exist. but parents tell me we feel the country is more divided now in a subtle way than it was when they were sitting at lunch counters. >> let's go back to that meeting again. you had an exchange with al sharpton.
[video clip] >> the supreme court is the law of the land. when the case is taken to the supreme court, they will look at what is passed in 2008 by a majority of 6-3, and they will say, that is precedence. and indiana free voter i.d. >> they did not say all of those things -- >> let me finish. you misrepresented what i said. the supreme court is the law of the land.
correct, but they will look to the indiana case. [indiscernible] >> i will cut your mike off, come on. >> what does it feel like -- i do not like that question. you are sitting there and people are prejudiced against you for being a black conservative. what is that like? is it hard to be in a situation like that? >> yes. \most of the attacks i get are coming from black people. it is not coming from -- people think it would be from people who do not look like me. in situations like this, when i am in a predominately black, liberal environment, i get attacked viciously. it does not feel great. i will not sit there and be
somebody's punching bag and not set the record straight about the reality of voter i.d. laws. what i was talking about in that clip is when the supreme court ruled and up held the indiana law, voter rolls went up, not down. the supreme court said, we do not think it will prevent minorities from voting. when other cases come before the supreme court, they will look at how they ruled in indiana. that was the point i was making. >> i want to go to one of your blogs. i read the following --
what is wrong with old white guys? >> there is nothing wrong. you are a nice guy. this sounds cliche but i have a lot of white friends. all kidding aside, the reason why it is a problem is because mitt romney lost because he pretty much, in my opinion, ignored the minority votes. he gave a couple ads to hispanics and said, you come and vote for me. the president filled the void with a message to all groups. romney won 5% more points among white voters than mccain. if the republican party does not do something about fixing its
image and doing something about bringing more people into this, we will not win elections and, as my father said to me last week, we will probably be voted literally out of existence. >> later, you write -- if he had a lot of black people around him, everybody would have said that is phony? >> no. if he had black people around him and latinos and hispanics, he could have won. i think they would have said, look at this guy. he gets it.
>> what about the analysis by people saying, if you do that, you will lose people. >> some people would have argued it would look like he was pandering. i think that is the biggest joke running. the big problem i had with mitt romney is, from inside the campaign to the people for the face of the campaign, it was the same thing. you had mostly white males. some peppering with white females, but that is not saying, i am inclusive. i am your guide. to his credit, mitt romney went and made his case to black americans. i thought this is great. i thought it was one of the best
speeches he gave during his campaign, but he did not follow it up. if you look at that in hindsight, people would say that is pandering. >> -- how much do you think the media swoons over president obama? can you give examples? >> an enormous amount. the situation going on with benghazi, the attack on the consulate there. if this had been george bush and a republican, the way candy crowley asserted herself to jump to the president's defense in the second debate with mitt romney was so inappropriate it went beyond the pale. i really do not believe if that was a republican recumbent, candy crowley would have jumped in like that.
going back to the 2008 campaign, the president's relationship with the reverend who was his reverence for 20 years, obama belonged to his church. he had sermon that he gave. he baptized his children, he married and presided over the marriage between president obama and michelle obama, and that got attention by the mainstream media. these were awful sermons, saying america deserve what they got from 9/11. i will not repeat a lot of the awful things the reverend said. also, really, the president's failed record in his first term. the media did not hold the president accountable when he said, if i cannot get the job done in four years, i should be a one-term president.
he said that. why have we not been hearing that on the campaign trail from the mainstream media? why is it no one at the white house and the press stood up to the president and said, you yourself said if you could not get employment down, if you could not solve the economic problems, you should be a one- term proposition? why is nobody calling him on his failed promises? >> what do you say to white or black liberals who say, she has got all the talking points. why do you feel this way and 95% of the black people feel the other way? >> i do not have talking points. many things i have written have not necessarily been in step with the republican party. i do think i am one of the few black conservatives out there who will talk about how the president's race is playing into how the liberal media is not hold him accountable to his failed record.
>> why are they not? >> i do not think the liberal press -- i think they are swooning over the president because he is the first black person to take office as president. i really believe that. i also believe they have a love affair with president obama, almost as though he is a celebrity-like in their minds. this man, in my opinion, can do no wrong. the liberal press will continue to prop him up until the bitter end. i wonder what he would do that is so egregious that they would turn on him. if you look back at the campaign, i find it strange that throughout the presidential campaign, all of the questions are always directed to mitt romney, what is your economic plan? mitt romney had an economic plan.
he talked about it at nauseam. reining in entitlement spending. why were -- the media did not do an equal job of growing the president on his failed record. what is your plan for a second term? was he ever asked that? he really was not. i think it is outrageous. every incumbent, clinton, reagan, bush, clinton had a record to run on, but they grilled him. >> let's go back to the meeting. you bring up some other things in this clip. [video clip] >> in 1960, we had 36% of black males incarcerated. i was rereading the report written for president johnson about the state of black americans in 1964.
then i thought about today where we have 65% of blacks in prison. i look back at the report and i saw at the time, it said the biggest thing he saw affecting black americans was the breakdown of the black family. >> two issues. 65% of black americans are in prison today? >> it is quite an enormous amount. i think it is about 55%. i do not have the -- >> why? i have heard people say the reason is because of the laws that are written against the black folks, and the drugs, crack cocaine verses the powder.
>> shelby steele, a great professor at stanford and a great published author, writes a lot about this. he comes to mind. this was written when the trayvon martin shooting happened. it is not the sentencing guidelines the reason why you have a disproportionate number of black people in prison. the report written for president johnson, the whole report is about how he saw a breakdown in the black family and parallel to the breakdown, he was seeing a rise among blacks on welfare. he said this is a very disturbing trend.
he said, i am seeing a lot of black families headed by single black women. i am very concerned about this. it was around 20% of black homes headed by single, black women today. the illegitimate birth rate, 23% of all black babies born were born to unwed mothers. it is not because the sentencing guidelines for crack and powder cocaine. it is because you have 73% of black babies born into homes without fathers where you do not have a marriage to support and welcome this child and nurture this child. democrats think the solution is, let's just throw money at it. our system rewards of women for not having men in the home. no fathers. you get money.
blacks represent a smaller portion of the population and we have a disproportionate number of us who are on welfare. that is not empowering. we have not done much better than the 1960's. how is this empowering black americans? >> how did we get to the point, 40% of children are born out of wedlock in the country. 73% of the black race. where did this come from? >> two things. people do not talk about -- it is great to get married and have a family. i do not have any children because i am not married. i would like to get married first.
i have not done the family thing. i have been raised by two loving parents. i think somewhere along the line, we as a country have said marriage is not sexy anymore and family is not sexy anymore. the numbers are bearing this out. we have education gaps. i am talking about black americans now. overall, you just highlighted 40% of babies born out of wedlock. that is really what it is. let's not sugarcoat it. you are not doing kids a favor or our country a favor. >> how do you change that? >> by talking about -- when i grew up, teachers could talk about traditional family values and not be accused of being non- politically correct. it sounds very basic. i do not understand why, on a very fundamental level, why are we not talking to little kids about family? maybe the family is changing a little bit, the face of it, but why can we not talk about family?
also, sex education. we need to bring that back in public schools. i remember learning about the biology of the body and the birds and bees in middle school. it was reinforced at home. if we are going to talk about sex education, we should also talk about abstinence. there is a great way not to get pregnant -- not to have sex. there is nothing wrong with abstinence. >> let's go back to your life for a little bit. where did you go to get your undergraduate degree? >> georgetown university. i wanted to be an actress. i got my master's in fine arts in theater in richmond. my plan b was writing.
the rest is history. >> how long were you at cnn? >> i did an internship and wrote scripts for freelance. i worked for abc news as an off- air reporter. i was one of the first folks hired by fox. i was the producer on site. not always fun days. we were the stepchild of all the networks, the cable networks,
because we were a conservative venture. >> did you have to be conservative? >> not at all. fox was an equal opportunity employer in every aspect. >> how long did you work there? >> maybe a year and a half. >> what do you do now? >> i am a public relations consultant. a little bit from everything. my acting and my journalism. >> i saw a reference you did some work? >> i helped with a web site. it had not been launched, an outreach web site to black americans. >> you sounded frustrated. >> i was. i am frustrated the rnc did not launch it before the election.
they claim they did not have funding for it. which boggles the mind when you think of the rnc. they raised a lot of money. i think if they had launched it, it could have put activities behind it. it could have had meaningful impact. the decision was made not to. that speaks to what i was talking about earlier. we cannot give lip service to, we are the party of inclusion. we mean it. we really do. it was an epic fail 2012 in my opinion. >> let's watch and get your reaction. [video clip] >> there are all types of proposals. that is what we need right now. if we had some more targeted solutions, we would move down
the road. it has been really hard to get anything accomplished. >> that was back in april, 2012. what do you think? would you have been behind the president's jobs bill? >> i would not. i think it is a bunch of poppycock. the president wanted $400 billion more funding from congress to support his jobs bill, which was going to create jobs for what i would consider his winners and everybody else would lose. we do not need more money for spending for jobs. republicans have done a good job of articulating this.
reduce the number of regulations that are making businesses very petrified of hiring people. case study number one is obamacare. i read an interesting article a couple weeks ago about how many businesses are reducing their work hours for employees below 30 hours so they do not have to pay health insurance under the affordable care act. the way you create jobs -- businesses are sitting atop $2 trillion in cash because they do not know what this president will hurl at them next with more expenditures like dodd-frank. i have clients in financial services and i know that is making them very nervous. people are just not hiring
companies because they just do not know. if they are going to be able to have the money on hand to deal with the cost of all of these regulations. especially small businesses. right now, we are waiting to see if congress and the president can work something out on the bush tax cuts expiring in january. $250,000 is what a lot of small businesses earn and they would get hit by this. when i hear things like that, i do not think the solution is more money. the president threw money at this problem and unemployment is still at about 8%. >> what do you think of the black caucus as an organization? >> i think it has become irrelevant. what has the black caucus done for blacks with respect to education, incarceration rates?
they were founded in 1971 to be the conscience of the congress, to hold president accountable and make sure policies are passed to benefit black americans. i will give you an example of why the body is a joke in my opinion. it is nothing more than black victimization. the current head of the congressional black caucus, right before the election, when i attended the town hall event they had on voter i.d., a couple of serious were given, and he said, if president obama was white and unemployment was what it was for black americans, 14%, he said blacks would be marching around the white house because they would not stand for it. he was almost laughing when i read the article.
he said, you know, the president knows we will give deference to him. we will give him a break. you tell me how that body is not irrelevant if he admits they are not holding president obama accountable as previous presidents because of the color of his skin. unemployment is the highest it has been for black americans since 1984. 14.3%. almost double the national average. you and i have spoken about problems going back to the 1960's.
the trend was seen here. a baby being born out of wedlock. where are we today? it is worse. why is it members of the congressional caucus, black representatives to congress, why are they not looking at policies to empower blacks and prevent this from happening? not policies of victimization saying, what will the government give me next? that is not empowerment. >> right after the election was held, what you mentioned was a black website of "the washington post," they ran a piece. a journalism professor. i just want to read some of what he said and get your reaction. this is a letter to president obama. "congratulations on getting
reelected to a second term. mr. president, how about some payback?" -- a couple of things. he never says what he wants. he wants payback. do you know what black people want? >> i do not know what he is talking about. i know what conservative blacks would want. more supportive of school vouchers and school choice for blacks who are disproportionately stuck in failing schools.
that is something that president obama has consistently been against. the article speaks to the fact that this president got 95% of the black vote this time around and what policies as he put in place that have uplifted black americans economically? he pandered to every other group. >> let me reverse that and go back to the republicans. mitt romney said a couple weeks ago this president pandered to all of these groups.
the republicans went crazy, reacting against it. we have to care about people at all this stuff. >> let's talk a little bit about what romney actually said. i think romney should stop talking. he said the reason the president one is because he promised guests to all of these different groups. i think black people would beg to differ with mr. romney on that. i do not think he has ever given president obama has never given blacks gifts. i think that was the wrong choice of words. the reason why republicans were out raise this because, once again, mitt romney shows he is out of touch and uses in delicate language. it was not gifts. president obama exploited different demographic groups to
his own benefit. the amnesty for latinos and hispanics, he did an executive order and said, if you are under 30 and have been in this country for five years, you can have a pass for staying here. he stopped calling it citizenship. we will give you amnesty. you will stay here. you went through all of the litany of things. here is where romney felt. he did not even bother to talk to the groups. besides one speech, which i think what a great starting point to a real relationship with black americans because mitt romney actually said, here is what i will promise you -- school choice and education, of entrepreneurship. there was a time when black entrepreneurship at the time of my grandparents -- my grandfather owned a dry cleaners. he was thriving in the 1950's. these are things mitt romney was talking about. family values. we know black americans are for that. they are against gay marriage.
mitt romney was talking about these things. what do we know that we just talked about? when children are born in sustained families, their chances of being successful in life go up not, not down. so mitt romney was talking about the things we have yet to hear coming out of the president's mouth with respect to black americans and the kind of gifts he would promise them. >> you mentioned your grandfather and there is a story there. >> my grandfather owned a dry cleaners. i did not know him very long. he died when i was about four. i think it was four. my little brother had been born and my other brother was not in this world yet. my grandfather was gunned down in his dry cleaners by two young
black kids who tried to rob him. this was in 1970. my grandfather went to reach for a gun. i wrote about this. gun possession, gun laws, what we do about it all? he went to reach for a gun and shot him before he could do anything with it. >> what impact did that have on your family? >> a devastating impact, particularly on my mother. she is the youngest in my family. she was the last person standing on her immediate family's side. both my uncles are deceased. my grandfather is dead. my grandmother died about 10 years ago.
she is the only one left on her immediate family side. i have written about a couple times. it is a pretty devastating affect on my mother. she is close to my father. she wanted him to be able to live to see his grandkids, her kids. >> you start off talking about your blog. how often do you write it? >> i tried to write once a week. sometimes i am more inspired than other weeks. >> you can write your blog and put your headline on it. >> i can. >> of all you have written over the years, and by the way, it is conservativeblackchick.com. >> i get tweets that say, you are republican. why do you do this? i say, i am a conservative, i am black, and i am a woman. it is just stating the obvious. i get more beat up for the name probably by conservatives. sometimes, liberals will get
into my face. who do you think you are? we get it. why do you have to be so obvious about it? i am glad people are talking about it. most people actually like it. >> what is the biggest hit you ever gotten? >> it is hard to isolate one. i can give you one example in recent memory, the one i wrote about mitt romney deserving. i was a newt gingrich delegate here in d.c. i headed up his effort to get people, delegates in d.c., to
get him on the ballot. >> why did you like him? >> i remember seeing the way the speaker handled himself during the 1990's when he was the speaker of the house and how he dealt with president clinton on welfare reform and i felt as though, with the speaker, he would be tough on foreign policy, stand up to our enemies abroad, and also be fiscally responsible at home. i do not think he had the medal to really go the distance on this thing. >> april 11, 2012. "it is time for women to reject feminism and kiss peter pan goodbye." --
choices as far as careers go, most of them wanted to be married, they were married, they had families. with our generation, they wanted us to take advantage of the opportunities before us and they forgot to go back to basics. marriage is ok. it is a fun thing. what bothers me with feminism is you can have a baby without a man, you can bring home the bacon, you can cook it up in the pan. the fact is you cannot. women cannot have it all. i do not think you can be the ceo of any company and have it all as a woman. >> i want to read a line just for the audience. --
>> i believe that. if you put women in a confessional situation, even if they do not believe in god, but whatever their belief of power is that they put their confidence in, and their life, if you were to ask a woman, do you really want to be alone, and whether you are heterosexual or whatever, most women want to be with someone. >> you write, "i was forced to take a feminism criticism seminar as part of my honors major and hated it." why? >> all we read for the semester was criticism and critiques about how shakespeare was a misogynist, all the classics were somehow bad men in the way they portrayed women. i remember being in a discussion and we were trying to
deconstruct the class. >> did you have to take this course? >> yes. if i wanted to be graduating with honors english major, i had to take it. there were two seminars. we sat around and i remember saying to the professor, i do not think shakespeare was trying to throw gasoline on women. he gave women voices. lady macbeth, juliet. we had to read a lot of criticism written by lesbian writers. i said, why do we have to keep reading this stuff by lesbian women? i just do not get it. at the end of the class, the professor tells us, i want to tell you all i am gay. i wanted you to know that. i am thinking, why is she telling us at the end of the class?
it might have been nice to know that at the beginning of the seminar because then i would have known why she was shoving all of this lesbian criticism down our throats. i know we all are subjective individuals and we come from a subjective place about where we are raised and who we are, but my parents are paying good money for me to go to georgetown university and i had to take a class which i felt was very slanted and biased. feminism is a bunch of garbage. it is written to brainwash women into believing they can do it all on their own and the big bad world is there to hate them. not all men hate women. >> all right. we are almost out of time. the final question for you is, not that we want to start 2016 already, but give us an example of the kind of candidate you think on the republican side, could win in 2016 that you would like. >> 2016 is a long way away.
i like the white guy who has done great things on inclusion in florida. i like alan west, but i do not think he could get elected on a presidential ticket. i think marco rubio would be an interesting candidate. i think 2016 is too early. i do not know. >> crystal wright, conservativeblackchick.com website, we thank you.
>> for a dvd copy of this program call 1-877-662-7726. for free transcripts or to give us your comments about this program, visit us at www.q-and- a.org. "q&a" programs are also available as c-span podcasts. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2012]>> next, british prime minister david cameron takes questions from members of the house of commons. after that, a look at the status of the fiscal cliff negotiations between congress and the white house. then a discussion on the role of lobbyists in those talks on the fiscal cliff